Climategate 2

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #12 en: Viernes 25 Noviembre 2011 20:42:54 pm »
Buenas noches, acabo de encontrar una web de los supuestos emails con buscador incluído:
http://foia2011.org/

Saludos


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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #13 en: Sábado 26 Noviembre 2011 02:31:45 am »
Yo ya me los bajé  ;D

Por cierto, ¿A alguien más le pasa lo que a mi?
Cuando me meto en el google news y busco la palabra clima, salen noticias relacionadas con el clima.
Cuando pongo la palabra climategate me echa del google news y me devuelve los resultados en la barra de google.Incluso lo he probado con el buscador de noticias avanzadas.  :cold: :cold: :cold:
¿Alguien lo puede verificar?

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #14 en: Sábado 26 Noviembre 2011 02:59:04 am »

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #15 en: Sábado 26 Noviembre 2011 03:41:46 am »
Que fuerte, que fuerte. Gracias Vigorro. Estaba viendo la peli Conspiración y pensaba que me había vuelto un poco  :crazy: Curioso error.  8)

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #16 en: Sábado 26 Noviembre 2011 15:00:12 pm »
En verdad no me he bajado estos mail , y tampoco la haria me parece una perdida de tiempo , ya con los que resaltan en algunas paginas me basta y me sobra para darme cuenta que no hay uno solo que no este sacado de contexto, si solo nos quedamos con la frase , y no vemos dentro de que contexto que se dijo , se puede perfectamente interpretar algo contrario a lo que se quiere transmitir... eso lo sabemos todos o no ?.. Vamos lo mismo que hacen, muchos programas de TV. para decir solo lo que ellos quieren , editando a diestra y siniestra..

Esto yo personalmente lo veo como el ultimo recurso desesperado de gente que como ve que por la vía de argumentos científicos sólidos , no pueden socavar las solidas bases de la teoría Atropogenica del CC .; Tiene que de alguna forma, hacer ver a todos los científicos que apoyan la teoría  como corruptos con falta de moral y ética, y poniendo todo dentro de una supuesta gran conspiración de la élite científica ...

Con este pensamiento podríamos decir que vigilant también forma parte de esta élite , por apoyar lo que todos sabemos...... nada mas lejos de la relidad señores....

Que pueda haber alguno como en cualquier rama, con malas intenciones no lo dudo,, pero creer que todos son corruptos y están confabulados me parece ridículo...

SAludos...

In memoriam: Albert A. Bartlett
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"Hay que tener la mente abierta. Pero no tanto como para que se te caiga el cerebro al suelo."
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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #17 en: Sábado 26 Noviembre 2011 15:09:21 pm »
nada mas lejos de la relidad señores....

No, es mas real esto...

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2011/11/24/natura/1322134612.html

CLIMA | Informe de la OCDE
La temperatura global puede subir hasta seis grados para finales de este siglo

La tendencia actual hará que la temperatura aumente entre tres y seis grados centígrados al final del siglo sobre los niveles preindustriales, un escenario de cambio climático de graves consecuencias, también económicas, que todavía se pueden evitar con un coste de acción limitado.

Este es el principal mensaje de un informe sobre el cambio climático divulgado hoy, en vísperas de la conferencia de Durban que comienza la semana próxima, por la Organización para la Cooperación y el Desarrollo Económico (OCDE), que pidió a los gobiernos que se impliquen para lograr un acuerdo internacional.

"Los costes económicos y las consecuencias medioambientales de la inacción política del cambio climático son significativas", advirtió el secretario general de ese organismo, Ángel Gurría, con ocasión de la presentación del estudio, que cifra también el cambio de las políticas actuales para mitigar el calentamiento de la tierra a dos grados centígrados, lo que se considera una hipótesis de efectos asumibles.

Impacto económico

Los datos de aumento posible de la temperatura toman como referencia los que había antes del comienzo de la era industrial. En concreto, las medidas para modificar sobre todo el panorama energético que se augura para 2050 y reducir las emisiones de efecto invernadero en un 70% sería del 5,5% del Producto Interior Bruto (PIB).

Una cifra que los autores del informe relativizaron en conferencia de prensa, al subrayar que significaría que el crecimiento de la economía mundial en los cuatro próximos decenios sería del 3,3% anual en lugar del 3,5%, un recorte de dos décimas.

Pero sobre todo pusieron el acento en que no alterar las políticas actuales entrañaría desarreglos medioambientales que afectarían mucho más a la economía. El informe Stern de 2006 había anticipado pérdidas permanentes del consumo por habitante superiores al 14%.

La OCDE advirtió de que sin nuevas políticas de contención de las emisiones de efecto invernadero, las energías fósiles seguirán manteniendo su peso relativo actual, un 85% del total.

Eso conduciría a un volumen de concentración en la atmósfera de 685 partes de dióxido de carbono (CO2) o equivalentes por millón, muy lejos de las 450 que los científicos consideran que permitirían limitar el calentamiento climático global a dos grados centígrados.

Tiempo limitado

El conocido como el 'Club de los países desarrollados' afirmó que "todavía es posible" cambiar esas oscuras perspectivas, pero también que "la ventana de oportunidad se está cerrando rápidamente".

A ese respecto, señaló que aplazar la toma de medidas a 2020 sin ir más allá de lo convenido en las conferencias internacionales de Copenhague y Cancún, o esperar a la llegada de tecnologías más eficientes "sería más costoso" porque "incrementaría el ritmo y la escala de los esfuerzos necesarios" a partir de entonces, con un mayor riego medioambiental.

Para la OCDE, un punto relevante es establecer "un precio significativo" de las emisiones de CO2 para inducir al cambio tecnológico, pero también la fijación de objetivos de disminución de emisiones "claros, creíbles y más restrictivos" con los que se tienen que comprometer "todos los grandes emisores, sectores y países".

Una alusión a los países emergentes, de los que se espera que venga el grueso del aumento de los gases de efecto invernadero en los próximos decenios.

Por ahora, en cualquier caso, la media de emisiones de CO2 por habitante era de 10,6 toneladas al año de media en la OCDE en 2008, con grandes diferencias en su interior: de las más de 20 toneladas en Luxemburgo o en torno a 18 en Australia y Estados Unidos, a los menos de cinco toneladas en Chile, México y Turquía.

En cuanto a los principales países emergentes, en 2008 China tenía 4,9 toneladas de emisiones de CO2 por habitante y la India 1,2 toneladas.

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #18 en: Sábado 26 Noviembre 2011 15:51:41 pm »
Citar
La tendencia actual hará que la temperatura aumente entre tres y seis grados centígrados al final del siglo sobre los niveles preindustriales

Decir que la temperatura aumentara en un rango de 3 a 6 C, me parece  razonable y nada descabellado ni exagerado( si ha eso apuntas), esto siempre que sigamos emitiendo como hasta ahora sin ninguna  mitigacion del Co2 ..
 En estos momentos por el nivel de emisiones estaríamos entre A2 y A1F1 notar las barras grices a la derecha indican la incertidumbre de la predicción

Figure 2: Solid lines are multi-model global averages of surface warming (relative to 1980–1999) for the scenarios A2, A1B, and B1, shown as continuations of the 20th century simulations. Shading denotes the ±1 standard deviation range of individual model annual averages. The orange line is for the experiment where concentrations were held constant at year 2000 values. The grey bars at right indicate the best estimate (solid line within each bar) and the likely range assessed for the six SRES marker scenarios.



Esta es una comparación de entre muchas predicciones que se han echo en el pasado comparándola con lo que sucedió realmente justamente las del IPCC son las que han sido mas precisas..

Figure 5 final frame: IPCC AR4 Scenario A2 multi-model average global temperature projection to 2100 (blue) and Scenario B1 (green) compared to the 'danger limit' of 2°C warming above pre-industrial levels (red).



Me dirás porque tanta incertidumbre bueno hay muchas causas pero una de las principales es que, hay varios fedbacks tanto positivos como negativos , de los que no se saben con la prescicion debida cuando van a entrar en acción y de que magnitud serán. Yo confio en que ha medida que pase el tiempo se podra ir constriñendo esta incertidumbre...




« Última modificación: Sábado 26 Noviembre 2011 16:07:38 pm por Doom »

In memoriam: Albert A. Bartlett
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"Hay que tener la mente abierta. Pero no tanto como para que se te caiga el cerebro al suelo."
Dr. Richard Feynman

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #19 en: Domingo 27 Noviembre 2011 22:12:56 pm »
Que tiene que ver esto con Climategate2 ?
Propaganda de "skeptical pseudoscience" en otro post por favor

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #20 en: Domingo 27 Noviembre 2011 22:18:00 pm »
"Climategate emails out of contest"
 
Out of contest... My arse!

Un poco largo, pero merece la pena leerlo:
 http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/

Climategate 2 and Corruption of Peer Review

The post here is a follow-up from my last post on some Climategate 2 emails, which I have tied together into a kind of narrative. Why should you read this?It is very simple. There are plenty of articles, views etc. out there claiming that the climategate 2 emails are being taken out of context. I have also seen Phil Jones has been saying that it is just the normal ‘to and fro’ of normal scientists going about their business etc. etc.

This is most certainly not the case in the emails that follow. There really is no hiding place for the authors, and no ambiguity. The emails will track how annoyance at the publication of a ‘contrary’ article in a journal develops into an attack on the editor, Chris de Freitas, an accomplished scientist. The attack includes a plot to see if they can get him sacked from his job at University of Auckland. Within the story, it is evident exactly what kind of ‘scientists’ the key authors are. The word scientist applied to these people has denigrated the meaning of the word.

Amongst those involved are Phil Jones, Michael Mann, Jim Salinger, Tom Wigley, Barrie Pittock, Mike Hulme + others. In addition Pachauri, the head of the IPCC is copied into many of the emails, meaning that he was fully aware that some of the key scientists in the IPCC were effectively out of control.

The post is very long, but please stick with it. The story unfolds, and is worth the effort if you really want to see what is going on. When quoting the emails, I do so minus annoying symbols such as >>>. Where I am commenting within the email text, I place the text as [this is my comments], and any bold text is my emphasis.

The starting point is email 2683, from 12 April 2003 when there is grumbling about a paper by Soon & Baliunas (S&B) published in the journal Climate Research (abreviated to CR in the emails). There is some discussion of the S&B study, and Mike Hulme discusses the potential of the paper on the thoughts of policymakers with Barrie Pittock:

Yes, this paper has hit the streets here also through the London Sunday Telegraph. Phil Jones and Keith Briffa are pretty annoyed, and there has been correspondence across the Atlantic with Tom Crowley and Ray Bradley. There has been some talk of a formal response but not sure where it has got to.  Phil and Keith are really the experts here so I would leave that to them. Your blow by blow account of what they have done prompts me again to consider my position with Climate Research, the journal for whom I remain a review editor.  So are people like Tim Carter, Nigel Arnell, Simon Shackley, Rob Wilby and Clare Goodess, colleagues whom I know well and who might also be horrified at this latest piece of primary school science that Chris de Freitas from New Zealand has let through (there are a good number of other examples in recent years and Wolfgang Cramer resigned from Climate Research 4 years ago because of it).

I might well alert these other colleagues to the crap science CR continues to publish because of de Freitas and see whether a collective mass resignation is appropriate.  Phil Jones, I believe, is already boycotting reviews for that journal.

The first point to note is their concern is as much about the impact upon policy as it is about the science. This will become important for setting the context for the progressive process in which they eventually seek to destroy the career of the offending editor.We then get a response from Salinger, in response to Pittock’s call for someone to ‘take up the gauntlet’:

Dear Mike, Barrie, Neville et al

Saturday morning here and thanks for all your efforts.  I note the reference to Chris de Freitas.  Chris writes very voluminously to the NZ media and right wing business community often recycling the arguments of sceptics run overseas, which have been put to bed.

I, personally would support any of these actions you are proposing particularly if CR continues to publish dishonest or biased science. This introduces a new facet to the publication of science and we should maybe have a panel that ‘reviews the editors’.  Otherwise we have the development of shonkey editors who then manipulate the editing to get papers with specific views published.  Note the
immediacy that the right wing media (probably planned) used the opportunity!

Your views appreciated – but I can certainly provide a dossier on the writings of Chris in the media in New Zealand.

There are several points of note here. First of all, the positioning of de Freitas as being part of a right-wing, and there is even suggestion of a conspiracy. Finally, just to demonstrate that de Freitas is an ‘outsider’, Salinger will produce the evidence. Having a different view, it seems, is condemnation. Pittock then responds to Salinger:

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I hope the co-editors of ‘Climate Research’ can agree on some joint action. I know that Peter Whetton is one who is concerned. Any action must of course be effective and also not give the sceptics an excuse for making de Freitas appear as a martyr – the charge should surely be not following scientific standards of review, rather than publishing contrarian views as such. If a paper is contested by referees that should at least be stated in any publication, and minimal standards of statistical treatment, honesty and clarity should be insisted on. Bringing the journal and publisher into disrepute may be one reasonable charge.

‘Energy and Environment’ is another journal with low standards for sceptics, but if my recollection is correct this is implicit in their stated policy of stirring different points of view – the real test for both journals may be whether they are prepared to publish refutations, especially simultaneously with the sceptics’ papers so that readers are not deceived.

On that score you might consider whether it is possible to find who de Freitas got to review various papers and how their comments were dealt with. I heard second hand that Tom Wigley was very annoyed about a paper which gave very low projections of future warmings (I forget which paper, but it was in a recent issue) got through despite strong criticism from him as a reviewer.

Here we have our first indications that de Freitas may be about to face problems. Note that Pittock suggests that any hint of attacking de Freitas for contrarian views must be avoided. The whole phrasing of this seems almost to admit that this is exactly what they are doing. Note also that the implication is that anything that is published by skeptics must be of a low standard. It is a view of quite extraordinary arrogance. It is even more evident in the final bold statement; annoyance that a less alarmist paper gets through.

We now move onto email 2272, of 16th April. The thread of the email is a response to Pittock’s email, and Phil Jones kicks off with this:

There have been a number of emails on these two papers [probably Wigley's paper]. They are bad. I’ll be seeing Hans von Storch next week and I’ll be telling him in person what a disservice he’s doing to the science and the status of Climate Research.

I’ve already told Hans I want nothing more to do with the journal. Tom Crowley may be writing something – find out also next week, but at the EGS last week Ray Bradley, Mike Mann, Malcolm Hughes and others decided it would be best to do nothing. Papers that respond to work like this never get cited – a point I’m trying to get across to Hans. We all have better papers to write than waste our time responding to drivel like this.

Notice that the suggestion is that pressure will be put on the editor Hans van Storch. As will be seen, this is positively mild in comparison to what follows, but is nevertheless interference with the review system to keep out articles that do not support the ’cause’. Michael Mann then pitches in:

Phil relayed this message to me–this echos discussions that others of us here have had as well, and at Phil’s request, I’m forwarding some of these (Phil seems to have deleted them). I am encouraged at the prospect of some sort of action being taken.

The “Energy and Environment” piece is an ad hominem attack against the work of several of us, and could be legally actionable, though I don’t think its worth the effort. But more problematic, in my mind, is the “Climate Research” piece which is a real challenge to the integrity of the peer-review processes in our field.

I believe that a boycott against publishing, reviewing for, or even citing articles from “Climate Research” is certainly warranted, but perhaps the minimum action that should be taken. A paper published there last year by a University of Virginia “colleague” of mine who shall remain nameless contained, to my amazement, an ad hominem attach against the climate modeling community, and the offending statement never should have seen the light of day (nor should have any of the several papers of his which have been published there in recent years, based on quality and honesty standards alone).

A formal statement of “loss of confidence” in the journal seems like an excellent idea. It may or may not be useful for me to be directly involved in this, given that I am a primary object of attack by these folks. However, I’m happy to help in any way that I can, and please keep me in the loop.

Notice that the entire tenor of the email is summed up in the last statement in bold. Mann is taking any criticism of his work as a personal affront that must be stopped. Anything which critiques his work must be stopped. The boycott of citing and publishing in a journal is a big deal, as journal success is determined by ‘impact factors’ which in turn are driven by citations. This is already bringing out the ‘heavy guns’, but still is nothing in comparison to what comes later. In the interim, Mike Hulme continues the interference with the independence of the journal (Update 27 November- I just noticed that there is a section commencing with [Wolfgang Kramer ....] in this case the [...] were in the original, not my addition):

Dear Co-Review Editor

You may or may not have seen/read the article by Soon and Baliunas (from the Harvard Smithsonian Astrophysics Lab) in the Jan 31 2003 issue of CR (vol.23,2).  A variant of this analysis has just been published in the journal Energy and Environment.  The authors/editor made a big media campaign to publicise this work, claiming it showed clearly the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than the 20th century and that the IPCC (and other) analysis claiming the 20th century was the warmest in the last millennium was plain wrong.  In the UK, the Sunday Telegraph ran the story.

I have followed some email discussion about this amongst concerned paleoclimate experts here at UEA, in the USA and in Oz and NZ and their is overwhelming consensus [note this phrase carefully - the consensus of the 'team'] that the Soon and Baliunas work is just crap science that should never be passed peer review (for a flavour see Mike Mann, Phil Jones and Barrie Pittock below).  These paleo-experts have decided it is not worth a formal scientific response since the story has not run that widely in the mass media (although is now used by sceptics of course to undermine good science) and that the science is so poor it is not worth a reply.

The CR editor concerned is Chris de Freitas and I have followed over the years papers in CR that he has been responsible for reviewing.  [Wolfgang Cramer resigned from CR a few years ago over a similar concern over the way de Freitas managed the peer review process for a manuscript Wolfgang reviewd].

Whilst we do not know who reviewed the Soon/Baliunas manuscript, there is sufficient evidence in my view to justify a “loss of confidence” in the peer review process operated by the journal and hence a mass resignation of review editors may be warranted.  This is by no means a one-off – I could do the analysis of de Freitas’s manuscripts if needbe.

I am contacting the seven of you since I know you well and believe you may also have similar concerns to me about the quality of climate change science and how that science is communicated to the public.  I would be interested in your views on this course of action – which was suggested in the first place my me, once I knew the strength of feeling amongst people like Phil Jones, Keith Briffa, Mike Mann, Ray Bradley, Tom Crowley, etc.  CSIRO and Tyndall communication managers would then think that a mass resignation would draw attention to the way such poor science gets into mainstream journals.

Of course, we would need to be sure of our case and to argue on grounds of poor conduct of peer review (I can forward a devastating critique of the Soon/Baliunas method from Barrie Pittock if you wish) rather than on disagreeable content of one manuscript.  CR does of course publish some good science, but the journal is not doing anyone a service by allowing crap science also to be published.

Now the most interesting point of note here is that the article in question refutes the infamous hockey stick chart developed by Mann, in which the Medieval Warm Period disappears. What we have here is Mann, and other members of the team trying to get the editors of a journal to discredit the entire journal, simply for publishing a paper which refutes his own [Mann's] work! Note in this that the stakes are being raised again. Mann seeks to have the entire journal tarnished as a result of the publication of the offending papers. Note also his offer to re-review the manuscripts, which is disingenuous, to say the least (bearing in mind he is calling it crap). The aim appears to be to find out who did the review (which becomes quite and obsession, see earlier Pittock email). Finally, see how the consensus (highlighted) apparently trumps peer review! So the pressure is building against the journal…..

We are now onto email 3039 of 17 April. This is from the apparently mild mannered Phil Jones to Mike Hulme:

See the other emails I’ve sent today. Came in to do some work ! Keep me informed of the results and I’ll talk to Hans.  Nice try to shut Tim Lenton up – he’ll continue though !

Email O332 sees the approach to the de Freitas problem take a nasty turn. This is from Pittock to the rest of the ‘team’ and is very long so most commentary is in the text [comments in this format]. It is worth reproducing in full, as…well, you will see….:

I just want to throw in some thoughts re appropriate responses to all this – probably obvious to some of you, but clearly different from some views expressed. This is not solely a reply to Phil Jones, as I have read lots of other emails today including all those interesting ones from Michael Mann.

1. I completely understand the frustration by some at having to consider a reply to these nonsense papers, and I agree that such replies will not get cited much and may in fact draw attention to papers which deserve to be ignored.

2. However, ignoring them can be interpreted as not having an answer, and whether we ignore them or not, there are people and lobby groups which will push these papers as ‘refereed science’which WILL be persuasive to many small or large decision-makers who are NOT competent to make their own scientific judgements, [again, this is about policy, not about science] and some of whom wish the enhanced GH effect would turn out to be a myth. In our Australian backwater for example, such papers WILL/ARE being copied to business executives and politicians to bolster anti-FCCC decisions, and these people do matter [and goodness, wouldn't it be terrible if they got an alternative picture of the science!].There has to be a well-argued and authoritative response, at least for private circulation, and as a basis for advice to these decision-makers.

3. I see several possible courses of action that would be useful.

(a) Prepare a background briefing document for wide private circulation [why private???], which refutes the claims and lists competent authorities who might be consulted for advice on this issue.

(b) Ensure that such misleading papers do not continue to appear in the offending journals by getting proper scientific standards applied to refereeing and editing [nothing we disagree with goes into the journal]. Whether that is done publicly or privately may not matter so much, as long as it happens. It could be through boycotting the journals, but that might leave them [them??? - people who disagree] even freer to promulgate misinformation. To my mind that is not as good as getting the offending editors removed [they want to determine who can and cannot edit a journal?] and proper processes in place. Pressure or ultimatums to the publishers might work, or concerted lobbying by other co-editors or leading authors.

(c) A journalistic expose of the unscientific practices might work and embarass the sceptics/industry lobbies [this sounds like a call to smear anyone who disagrees] (if they are capable of being embarassed) e.g., through a reliable [as biased as they are???] lead reporter for Science or Nature. Offending editors could be labelled as “rogue editors” [this is simply unreal], in line with current international practice? Or is that defamatory? [I would suggest that, yes, calling anyone who disagrees with you, or allows publication of dissenting views, would indeed be defamatory]

(d) Legal action might be useful for authors who consider themselves libelled, and there could be financial support for such actions (Jim Salinger might have contacts here). However, we would need to be very careful to be moderate and reasonable in our reponses to avoid counter legal actions.

4. I thoroughly agree that just entering in to a public slanging match with the offending authors (or editors for that matter) on a one-to-one basis is not the way to go [no we do not want debate in the literature, for example????]. We need some more concerted action.

5. One other thought is that it may be worthwhile for some authors to do a serious further study to bring out some statistical tests for the likelihood of numerous proxy records showing unprecedented synchronous warming in the last 30+ years. This could be, somewhat along the lines of the tests used in the studies of observed changes in biological and physical systems in the TAR WGII report(SPM figure 1 and related text in Chapter 19, and recent papers by Parmesan and Yohe (2003) and Root et al. (2003) in Nature 421, 37-42 and 57-60). Someone may already have this in hand. I am sure the evidence is even stronger than for the critters. That is of course what has already been done in fingerprinting the actualtemperature record. [well, here is a radical alternative - address the skeptical arguments with science - however, as will be seen, they choose path 3B rather than the science!]

We now come to email 3052, 23rd April. This is where it gets really, really nasty. For this reason, I have listed all of those who were a cc on the email, and who it was addressed to. The email is from Jim Salinger, then working for NIWA new Zealand, and I imagine you will be shocked:

cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], Phil Jones, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

For information, De Freitas has finally put all his arguments together in a paper published in the Canadian Bulletin of Petroleum
Geology, 2002 (on holiday at the moment, and the reference is at  work!)

I have had thoughts also on a further course of action.  The present Vice Chancellor of the University of Auckland, Professor John Hood (comes from an engineering background) is very concerned that Auckland should be seen as New Zealand’s premier research university, and one with an excellent reputation internationally.  He is concerned to the extent that he is monitoring the performance of ALL his senior staff, from Associate Professor upwards, including interviews with them.  My suggestion is that a band of you review editors write directly to Professor Hood with your concerns.  In it you should point out that you are all globally recognized top climate scientist.  It is best that such a letter come from outside NZ and is signed by more than one person.  His address is:

Professor John Hood
Vice Chancellor
University of Auckland
Private Bag 92019
Auckland, New Zealand

Let me know what you think!  See suggested text below.

Regards

Jim

Some suggested text below:

***************

We write to you as the editorial board(review editors??) of the leading international journal Climate Research for climate scientists
….
We are very concerned at the poor standards and personal biases shown by a member of your staff. …..

When we originally appointed … to the editorial board we were under the impression that they would carry out their duties in an objective manner as is expected of scientists world wide.  We were also given to understand that this person has been honoured with science communicator of the year award, several times by your … organisation.

Instead we have discovered that this person has been using his position to promote ‘fringe’ views of various groups with which they are associated around the world.  It perhaps would have been less disturbing if the ‘science’ that was being passed through the system was sound.  However, a recent incident has alerted us to the fact that poorly constructed and uncritical work has been allowed to enter the pages of the journal.  A recent example has caused outrage amongst leading climate scientists around the world and has resulted in the journal dismissing (??).. from the editorial board.

We bring this to your attention since we consider it brings the name of your university and New Zealand into some disrepute. We leave it to your discretion what use you make of this information.

The journal itself cannot be considered completely blameless in this situation and we clearly need to tighten some of our editorial processes; however, up until now we have relied on the honour and professionalism of our editors.  Sadly this incident has damaged our faith in some of our fellow scientists. Regrettably it will reflect on your institution as this person is a relatively senior staff member.

Yes, read it again. There can be no doubt that they are trying to get Chris de Freitas sacked from the University of Auckland. Re-read it if you have any doubts. When the team object to a person, they really, really object. And if that means seeking to destroy a reputation and career, so be it. If you look at Pittock’s email with the options for action, you can see the final option was to address critiques with science. Instead, the proposed course of action is to gang up on an individual, and trash their career and reputation.

Any ambiguity or lack of context here??

And it gets worse, as the action is approved of by other members of the team. Along the way, they also sometimes reveal more than their willingness to pursue a vendetta against de Freitas.

This is email 1051230500.txt, of 24th April. Tom Wigley tries to hide behind a fig leaf of science, but in the end hypocritically then agrees to sign the letter to tarnish de Freitas. I will  not quote all the email, as it is very long, and this post is now too long overall. Wigley does discuss using science to solve the problems along the way, but I will just focus on the parts that deal with the trashing of de Freitas. The email starts with this (note, the bit in [...] on this occasion is the original author):

[Apologies to those I have missed who have been part of this email  exchange -- although they may be glad to have been missed]

I think Barrie Pittock has the right idea — although there are some unique things about this situation. Barrie says ….

(1) There are lots of bad papers out there
(2) The best response is probably to write a ‘rebuttal’

to which I add ….

(3) A published rebuttal will help IPCC authors in the 4AR.

(Update 27 November- this was in block quote, and is now clearly my text)It is very clear that Wigley is very uncomfortable about what is going on, and knows that he is in a conspiracy against an individual. The following discussion follows consideration of attempts to find out how Wigley had rejected papers in review, but which still had been published. He goes on to say:

This second case gets to the crux of the matter. I suspect that deFreitas deliberately chose other referees who are members of the skeptics camp. I also suspect that he has done this on other occasions. How to deal with this is unclear, since there are a number of individuals with bona fide scientific credentials who could be used by an unscrupulous editor to ensure that ‘anti-greenhouse’ science can get through the peer review  process (Legates, Balling, Lindzen, Baliunas, Soon, and so on).

The peer review process is being abused, but proving this would be difficult.

The best response is, I strongly believe, to rebut the bad science that does get through.

Note the points I have highlighted. People with bona fide scientific background should not review articles, as they might actually accept them for publication. Even if these scientist believe a paper is worthy of publication, apparently it is a bad publication. I do not think he had any idea of the implicit corruption of  peer reviewed science that is revealed in this exchange – but then again, look at the next part of Wigley’s email, and ask what this has to do with science?

Jim Salinger raises the more personal issue of deFreitas. He is  clearly giving good science a bad name, but I do not think a barrage of ad hominem attacks or letters is the best way to counter this.

If Jim wishes to write a letter with multiple authors, I may be willing to sign it, but I would not write such a letter myself.

In this case, deFreitas is such a poor scientist that he may simply disappear. I saw some work from his PhD, and it was awful (Pat Michaels’ PhD is at the same level).

In this, he acknowledges what is going on, as he does at the start of the email, but is willing to go along with it……despite recognising that it is wrong! The same email has the following from Salinger:

This will be the last from me for the moment and I believe we are all arriving at a consensus voiced by Tom, Barrie, Neville et al., from excellent discussions.

Firstly both Danny and Tom have complained to de Freitas about his editorial decision, which does not uphold the principles of good science.  Tom has shared the response. I would be curious to find out who the other four cited are – but a rebuttal would be excellent.

Ignoring bad science eventually reinforces the apparent ‘truth’ of that bad science in the public mind, if it is not corrected. As importantly, the ‘bad science’ published by CR is used by the  sceptics’ lobbies to ‘prove’ that there is no need for concern over climate change.  Since the IPCC makes it quite clear that there are substantial grounds for concern about climate change,  is it not partially the responsibility of climate science to make sure only satisfactorily [agreeing with their views] peer-reviewed science appears in scientific publications?  – and to refute any inadequately reviewed and wrong articles that do make their way through the peer review process?

I can understand the weariness which the ongoing sceptics’ onslaught would induce in anyone [because it is too much trouble to refute them?], scientist or not.  But that’s no excuse for ignoring bad science.  It won’t go away, and the more we ignore it the more traction it will gain in the minds of the general public, and the UNFCCC negotiators.  If science doesn’t uphold the purity of science, who will?

We Australasians (including Tom as an ex pat) have suggested some courses of action.  Over to you now in the north to assess the success of your initiatives, the various discussions and suggestions and arrive on a path ahead.  I am happy to be part of it.

Again, good science is the science that agrees with their own views. Bad science is to take an opposing view. ‘Purity of science’ is taken to mean ‘agreeing with my views’. Again, this is disturbing, but more disturbing is the moral righteousness that leads towards the comment that Salinger is happy to be part of it. The plot thickens in email 1430 of 28 April, when Phil Jones writes to Mike Hulme:

I’ve just talked to Clare about discussions I had with Hans last week in the US. I think he is now convinced about de Freitas and is drafting a letter with Clare to go to the publishers and to de Freitas. Basically trying to get the reviewer’s names etc and their reports in the first instance, with maybe sending some of the background emails to the publishers.

Also assessing copyright as the ‘other’ Soon/Baliunas paper in Energy and Env. is essentially the same as that in CR. Hans wanted to try this first, but didn’t want to tell all what he was doing. Fears a backlash if de Freitas gets removed without due cause.  So let’s all try and keep the emails down, and hope we can report something to all once the correspondence Hans initiates gets replies.

Here, they are trying to get de Freitas through other means, which is copyright violation. Give them credit; they are determined! Mike Hulme replies to say that he will add his weight to the campaig for removing de Freitas as editor, suggesting that he will carry more weight as an ex-editor.

At this point, I will end the story. There is plenty more material to piece together, but I have (again) run out of time and energy for this. As such, I will round up this very, very long post with a few comments.

The first point is that, despite the claims about taking emails out of context, it is 100% apparent that within the context here that the aim is to corrupt the review process, and exclude skeptical articles from publication. There is repetition throughout of a justification being ‘bad science’, but they mean work that is critical of their own work when they say this. The arrogance in this is astounding, and is only a fig leaf to protect their own work.

Also, in attacking de Freitas, it is apparent that Wigley knew that this was wrong, but he was willing to sign a letter to damage his reputation. Salinger uses the fig leaf of science as a prelude to his self-righteous comment that he is happy to be part of it.

There is no hiding place in here, and the emails that follow are just as bad. I have not looked at them all in detail but, as I have shown in the last post, other members of the team were fully onboard with the attack on de Freitas.

Just as importantly, Pachauri, the head of the IPCC is copied in on many of the emails, from some of his ‘leading scientists’, where it is 100% apparent that they are out of control. He does nothing.

This is all very tragic. I will, if I have time, try to finish the story, or others may want to take it forwards if they have the time or inclination. What I do know is that this particular case appears to be one of the most clear and damning I have yet seen with regards to the ‘team’ seeking to stifle debate, and ultimately destroy the scientific process. It is just all the more shocking for the tribalistic hounding of Chris de Freitas.


Desconectado Patagon

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #21 en: Domingo 27 Noviembre 2011 22:36:45 pm »
El punto de vista de alguien que conoce bastante bien como funciona un hacker:
http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/some-thoughts-and-some-questions-about-the-climategate-2-0-release/
 

Desconectado LightMatter

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #22 en: Domingo 27 Noviembre 2011 23:06:48 pm »
Que tiene que ver esto con Climategate2 ?
Propaganda de "skeptical pseudoscience" en otro post por favor


Porque no te haces esa pregunta con el post anterior al mio (por que a mi SI y a otros NO)....?

In memoriam: Albert A. Bartlett
aHJpenpvIHNvcyB1biBUUk9MICwgeSB5YSBtZSB0ZW5lcyBsb3MgaHVldm9zIHBvciBlbCBwaXNvLCBwZXJvIGlndWFsIHRlIHF1aWVyby4u
"Hay que tener la mente abierta. Pero no tanto como para que se te caiga el cerebro al suelo."
Dr. Richard Feynman

Desconectado Patagon

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Re:Climategate 2
« Respuesta #23 en: Lunes 28 Noviembre 2011 19:42:00 pm »
From Shub Niggurath:
 

CLIMATEGATE II AND ‘DECARBONIZATION’

This is the vision the Climategaters have for society:
 

Standing outside with a solar cooker, fully decarbonizing
 
This is the vision they have for themselves:


Drinks with umbrellas (and enough bokeh for James and Jules)