Cita de: diablo en Sábado 01 Septiembre 2012 18:42:03 PM

Cita de: Vigorro... en Sábado 01 Septiembre 2012 17:40:23 PM

Cita de: teddy en Sábado 01 Septiembre 2012 16:29:29 PM
¿Se sabe algo del paso del Noroeste?. La imagen del 28 de agosto es la última un poco clara, y aparecía así la zona que quedaba por despejar. Lo que no sé es si el resto sigue despejado.

Cerrado...

En el estrecho de McClure la cosa aún anda justita, pero lo cierto es que en los últimos días se ha despejado mucho. De hecho, aprovechando esa estrecha franja con baja concentración junto a la costa sur del estrecho, hay quien estos pasados días lo ha navegado: http://belzebub2.com/home?lang=en

(a la hora de ponernos a hacer comparaciones históricas y esas cosas, justo es decir que sin mapas diarios del hielo,predicciones meteorológicas, telecomunicaciones, etc, seguramente no lo habrían logrado)

Tambien convendria aclarar que esos viajes historicos en el paso del noreste se completaron en varias temporadas , la mas famosa expedicion la de amundsen le tomo 3 años , ha ellos solo 1 , y ademas Amudsen tomo la variante sur del mismo...






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Amundsen#Northwest_Passage_.281903.E2.80.931906.29

Saludos

Cita de: Doom en Sábado 01 Septiembre 2012 18:56:34 PM

Tambien convendria aclarar que esos viajes historicos en el paso del noreste se completaron en varias temporadas , la mas famosa expedicion la de amundsen le tomo 3 años , ha ellos solo 1 , y ademas Amudsen tomo la variante sur del mismo...

Bueno, también veo que Larsen en 1944 lo completó del tirón, cambiando sólo McClure por Príncipe de Gales, y sin contar con todas esas ventajas de hoy en día.

Cita de: diablo en Sábado 01 Septiembre 2012 20:06:08 PM

Bueno, también veo que Larsen en 1944 lo completó del tirón, cambiando sólo McClure por Príncipe de Gales, y sin contar con todas esas ventajas de hoy en día.

Pues Sí  , pero en definitiva , nunca se había echo el viaje por el estrecho de Mcclure , y siempre tomando variantes mas al sur las cuales serian mas fáciles de navegar en cuanto al hielo comparado con la variante norte y ademas entiendo que esta seria la primera vez que se logra esto....de todas formas comparto que las ventajas tecnológicas ayudan mucho , y para hacer una comparación tet a tet habría que intentarlo con la misma embarcación o parecida y mismos instrumentos básicos mapa brújula y poco mas , el problema es que no creo que nadie por el momento se ateva a hacerlo en esas condiciones , no por lo menos en un par de décadas...

Chaoo!

Algo mas de info sobre el viaje de larsen en 1944 , para poner las cosas en un mejor contexto..


La embarcación:


The 'St. Roch' was (indeed, is) an ice-fortified Schooner (altered to a Ketch-rigged vessel) which had a crew of nine, and was built in 1928, for the RCMP to patrol and supply in the Arctic. Its length is 31.2m (104ft), width is 7.5m (25ft), draft is 3.9m (13ft) when fully loaded, depth of hold is 3.3m (11ft), weight is 196.5 tons, and it has a displacement of 323 tons. Motorised power was provided initially by a 6-Cylinder, 150Hp (112Kw) Union diesel engine, which was later upgraded to 300Hp (224Kw) for the second journey. The hull is rounded, to allow ice to slide easily underneath, and it is built from extra-thick timbers of Douglas Fir, sheeted on the outside with Australian "Ironbark" Eucalyptus Gumwood, one of the hardest woods available. It also has a steel plate covering a very sharp Bow (previously 1ft wide), and iron shoeing around the Stern, extending several feet back. The interior hull was reinforced with thick, heavy beams to withstand the ice pressures, and the rudder could be lifted up through a special well, to avoid it being snapped off by the ice.


Las condiciones del viaje de 1944:

The second trip (East to West) started at Halifax, N.S. on July 22 and ended at Vancouver, B.C. on Oct 16 1944, taking a total of 86 days (travelling 7295 miles), although actually involving 1031 hours, 34 minutes (43 days) of actual sailing.

They went the more Northerly route this time, which is freer of reefs and shallow spots, but they found lots of icebergs and a lot of broken but tightly-packed ice. From the beginning of August, they experienced heavy ice - and made slow progress - as well as lots of floe ice, and drifted in the ice-pack at one stage. They had to seek shelter at times but couldn't determine their exact location at one point because the weather conditions were so bad. At the end of August they experienced lots of heavy, tightly-packed floes and were prevented from landing due to the ice conditions. A lot of the journey consisted of following up leads and anchoring were they could. They found the heaviest ice of the voyage at the entrance to McClure Strait, where they had to moor themselves to the ice floes, and it was only at the beginning of September that the conditions were noticeably different - so much so that it was noted : "It was really the only fine day we had during the entire passage..." (2). After that, it was back to the heavy, tightly-packed ice-fields and the bad weather, with hurricane-force winds almost capsizing the boat before they were able to find shelter. In fact, the "...season was the worst in years." (1) (2)


Otras expediciones similares:

1977 – First single-handed yacht to transit Northwest Passage in one season: 'Williwaw', a 14.45m Bm Ketch.

1984 – First passenger cruise ship to make the transit: 'Lindblad Explorer'.

1991-94 – First woman to paddle solo in a Kayak: Victoria Jason.

Aug 2000 – 'St. Roch II', an RCMP 20m twin-hulled light Aluminium catamaran (previously called 'Nadon') followed the original 'St. Roch's' 1940-42 West to East route. It had an ice-breaker with it and the passage took three weeks : the ice-breaker was not needed, and they only saw a few ice-bergs and some small floes.

2001 – Northabout : Irish Northwest Passage Expedition, in a 15m aluminium sailing boat. (Included to celebrate my Irish ancestry !)

18 July 2003 - 'Norwegian Blue', a 13m Bermudan Cutter, became the first British yacht to transit the Northwest Passage from West to East in one season, completing the passage in two months. (Included on the recommendation of someone I met on a train to Cornwall, who knew the owner – small world, eh ?)

2007 - Sailing-vessel 'Cloud Nine', a 17m Bowman ketch - The first American sailing boat to complete the passage from East to West, containing possibly the oldest man to do the journey ! Completed the journey in 45 days – "There was hardly any ice", he told the Wall Street Journal.

2007 - James Allison,sailing in the 14.5m fibreglass Bowman 'Luck Dragon', said he felt a bit of a fraud after completing the trip because there wasn't any ice.

2007 - A lightweight 7.5m x 5m catamaran, the Babouche, successfully navigated the full length of the 5,150km (3,200-mile) waterway. "This is the first time the journey has been completed entirely by sail... Not so long ago, ...this journey would have been impossible because of the ice".

Nov 2008 – MV Camilla Desgagnes, Super Ice-Class vessel, is the first commercial ship to sail through the Northwest Passage : delivered sea-lift cargo from the East - normally comes from the West. Did it without an ice-breaker. Waguih Rayes, General Manager – "...I didn't see one cube of ice." "...there was no ice whatsoever...".

2009 - 'Silent Sound' a 12m cutter rig sailing boat completed the passage.

Sep 2010 – "The Canada Border Services Agency says 18 ships have cleared customs in Inuvik, N.W.T. - at the western end of the Northwest Passage - so far this year, and the navigation season is not even over yet. By comparison, only seven ships cleared customs there in 2009, according to the agency."

2010 – An 11m RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat) completes the passage.

2010 - A Russian crew aboard the 18m yacht 'Peter I' sailed around the Arctic, passing through the Northeast and Northwest Passages during one sailing season with no ice-breaker assistance. The first time in seafaring history. Or was it...

2010 - Norwegian explorer Børge Ousland and skipper Thorleif Thorleifsson onboard the sailboat 'Northern Passage' made the first full circle navigation of the Polar Basin. Their route took them through both the Northeast and Northwest passages. The expedition used a small trimaran made of fibreglass, with a 10Hp outboard as their only engine. "Less than 10 years ago the first steel hulled sailboat managed to get through just one of the passages, and 100 years ago a circumnavigation would have taken six years".

2010 - "Luxury yacht turns heads while sailing Northwest Passage".

It's obviously getting easier, but perhaps not as easy as some amateurs may imagine :

2010 – "Amateur sailors are setting course for the legendary Northwest Passage, but some are ill-equipped and unprepared for the challenges of sailing in the North, Canadian Coast Guard authorities say".

Fancy a cruise along the Northern Northwest Passage ? Try this one next year maybe :

September 1-17, 2011 - "Out of the Northwest Passage" aboard the 'Clipper Adventurer'.

Sep 2011 – A home-made Russian boat, the trimaran 'Rus', is now heading through the Northwest Passage.

2011 – The 9.3m GPR boat 'Beelzebub II' is "...attempting a unique passage in that we plan on going much further up the West Coast of Greenland to the highest latitude possible before turning south following the coast of Ellesmere Island and instead of crossing Devon Island to the south by entering Lancaster Sound to reach Resolute which is the "traditional route" we will attempt to pass Devon Island to the North through Jones Sound, then join up with Norwegian bay to meet Northumberland Sound to sail down to Resolute from where we will evaluate the ice charts and either join up to Peel Sound or continue along the Viscount Melville Sound."

http://www.skepticalscience.com/northwest-passage-has-been-navigated-in-the-past-intermediate.htm

JAXA en los últimos días ha ralentizado algo la perdida de extensión. Últimos datos:

3.912.500
3.877.031
3.836.250
3.797.969
3.710.625 (provisional, mañana se revisará)

Para los daneses puede que el minimo este cerca...

el mar de Bering empieza a registrar anomalías positivas después de muchos meses más frío de lo normal

La serie disidente:



http://www.natice.noaa.gov/products/ice_extent_graphs/arctic_daily_ice_extent.html






Bueno, e IMS:





http://www.natice.noaa.gov/ims/

Se sigue perdiendo extension:

Segun el NSIDC pasamos de los 3.689.110 km2 de ayer, a los 3.607.760 km2 de hoy, osea mas de 80.000 km2 en un dia, y hay que recordar que ya estamos en septiembre.

Hay que recordar, que supone una diferencia de mas de 600.000 km2 negativos, respecto al record del 2007, que si no me equivoco, este mismo organismo, el NSIDC, lo cuantifico en 4.170.000 km2.

El JAXA-IARC, tampoco tiene mucha mejor pinta, nos muestra una nueva caida hasta los 3.710.625 km2, su grafica tambien da miedo. ¿Veremos la extension por debajo de los 3.5 millones en ambos casos? El tiempo lo dira, pero a este paso, tiene toda la pinta.

Cita de: diablo en Domingo 02 Septiembre 2012 22:08:29 PM
La serie disidente:



http://www.natice.noaa.gov/products/ice_extent_graphs/arctic_daily_ice_extent.html






Bueno, e IMS:





http://www.natice.noaa.gov/ims/

Valla, diablo, ahora no solo bremen es mal producto, sino que también los siempre ponderados, hasta ayer, jaxa , dmi y nsidc 

Saludos..

Cita de: Doom en Lunes 03 Septiembre 2012 00:34:39 AM
Valla, diablo, ahora no solo bremen es mal producto, sino que también los siempre ponderados, hasta ayer, jaxa , dmi y nsidc 

Saludos..

Tu siempre lees lo que te sale del escroto... ¿donde ha dicho diablo que ahora lo que vale es lo que acaba de mostrar y que son los otros los equivocados?... simplemente ha dicho "la serie disidente", punto, no ha dicho ni mu mas, ni que eso es lo que vale, ni que JAXA, DMI o NSDIC no valgan ahora... eso que de JAXA, DMI y NSDIC son ahora "tambien malos productos, como Bremen" te lo acabas de INVENTAR...

Cojones como esta el foro ultimamente, no se puede abrir la boca en ningun sitio sin que te digan cosas extrañas...

Cita de: Vigorro... en Lunes 03 Septiembre 2012 00:42:07 AM

Cita de: Doom en Lunes 03 Septiembre 2012 00:34:39 AM
Valla, diablo, ahora no solo bremen es mal producto, sino que también los siempre ponderados, hasta ayer, jaxa , dmi y nsidc 

Saludos..

Tu siempre lees lo que te sale del escroto... ¿donde ha dicho diablo que ahora lo que vale es lo que acaba de mostrar y que son los otros los equivocados?... simplemente ha dicho "la serie disidente", punto, no ha dicho ni mu mas, ni que eso es lo que vale, ni que JAXA, DMI o NSDIC no valgan ahora... eso que de JAXA, DMI y NSDIC son ahora "tambien malos productos, como Bremen" te lo acabas de INVENTAR...

Cojones como esta el foro ultimamente, no se puede abrir la boca en ningun sitio sin que te digan cosas extrañas...

Amén


(Sobre las causas de estas diferencias,  ya hemos dicho algo en alguna ocasión, y ya volveremos a hacerlo)