Seguimiento temperatura global

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2376 en: Miércoles 27 Abril 2011 19:11:57 pm »
Curiosa la desaparicion de estaciones en el norte de Canada en 2005-2009 respecto a los años 90... y digo curioso porque precisamente es la zona del planeta que presenta, desde hace años, las anomalias positivas mas altas...


The difference in coverage of land surface temperature data between 1990-1999 and 2005-2010. Blue squares are
common coverage. Orange squares are areas where we had data in the 90s but don't have now and the few pale green
areas are those where we have data now, but didn't in the 90s. The largest difference is over Canada.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

También en los satélites, y a esos no les afecta la bajada de estaciones  ;D

Un análisis sobre Canadá con estaciones extra, comparándolo con GISS:

http://clearclimatecode.org/analysis-of-canada-data/

No cambia apenas nada, algún valor puntual, y la tendencia es clavada.
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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2377 en: Viernes 29 Abril 2011 00:06:57 am »
Curiosa la desaparicion de estaciones en el norte de Canada en 2005-2009 respecto a los años 90... y digo curioso porque precisamente es la zona del planeta que presenta, desde hace años, las anomalias positivas mas altas...


The difference in coverage of land surface temperature data between 1990-1999 and 2005-2010. Blue squares are
common coverage. Orange squares are areas where we had data in the 90s but don't have now and the few pale green
areas are those where we have data now, but didn't in the 90s. The largest difference is over Canada.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

También en los satélites, y a esos no les afecta la bajada de estaciones  ;D

No cambia apenas nada, algún valor puntual, y la tendencia es clavada.

 :nononono: GISS muestra una tendencia al alza mucho mas acusada que el resto de medidas... basta con ver las pendientes de las rectas...

0'002   HADCRUT3
0'003
0'004   RSS
0'005
0'006   CRUTEM3
0'007   UAH y NOAA
0'008
0'009
0'010
0'011
0'012
0'013  GISS :rcain:

« Última modificación: Viernes 29 Abril 2011 14:48:27 pm por Vigorro... »

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2378 en: Viernes 29 Abril 2011 14:14:06 pm »
Si,  Vigorro. Todavía más exagerado con los datos mensuales. Te pongo los dos extremos:

Pendiente Hadcrut3 0.000547516
Pendiente GISS 0.0123747



PD Para mi sorpresa RSS pendiente negativa -0.0026688

« Última modificación: Viernes 29 Abril 2011 14:28:07 pm por rs »
Cerceilla 1300 y otros sitios

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2379 en: Viernes 29 Abril 2011 14:50:15 pm »
Pues eso, lo que dice Markel... ::)

También en los satélites, y a esos no les afecta la bajada de estaciones  ;D

No cambia apenas nada, algún valor puntual, y la tendencia es clavada.

Gracias por el apunte,rs... ;)

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2380 en: Sábado 30 Abril 2011 09:58:57 am »
Pues eso, lo que dice Markel... ::)

También en los satélites, y a esos no les afecta la bajada de estaciones  ;D

No cambia apenas nada, algún valor puntual, y la tendencia es clavada.

Gracias por el apunte,rs... ;)

¿Que estás, de vacile?  :P ¿No hablábamos de Canadá?  Yo me refería a que usando el algoritmo de GISS con mas estaciones y menos estaciones salía la misma tendencia en Canadá, lo que venía a decir el enlace que he puesto. No me cites para atribuirme el haber dicho otra cosa.

En cuanto a los satélites, me refería a que también están dando anomalías muy altas en Canadá los últimos años.

De todas formas sacar tendencias globales de Niño del 98 a Niña de 2011, ouch!!
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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2381 en: Sábado 30 Abril 2011 14:06:43 pm »
Ya se que te referias a Canada, solo que yo he extrapolado el asunto al globo entero... ;) GISS mide de mas, y para mi no tiene vuelta de hoja... ¿por que?, no lo se...

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2382 en: Domingo 01 Mayo 2011 10:19:07 am »
Ya se que te referias a Canada, solo que yo he extrapolado el asunto al globo entero... ;) GISS mide de mas, y para mi no tiene vuelta de hoja... ¿por que?, no lo se...

Yo creo que el error de todas estas organizaciones que tratan de medir la "temperatura global" está precisamente en eso en que "tratan" y cada una utiliza un método "apropiado". El único dato, en mi opinión, que puede aceptarse como indicativo de la temperatura global es el que se mide desde los satélites.

En mi opinión todas esas organizaciones que hacen extrapolaciones de datos con las informaciones que reciben de un determinado número de estaciones deberían ponerse de acuerdo en fijar un serie de estaciones bien distribuidas por todo el globo, que estén localizadas en buenos sitios y tomar la media directa del dato que den todas ellas; no será la "temperatura global" pero su evolución sí indicará la evolución de la temperatura global.

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2383 en: Domingo 01 Mayo 2011 11:13:12 am »
Sea como sea, aunque GISS tenga una tendencia positiva mientras en los otros modelos es practicamente nula en ambos sentidos, yo creo que el concepto de "temperatura global" es algo muy dudoso.
Además, también nos tenemos que plantear si de verdad sirve para algo, ya que cada clima regional tiene una tendencia que es más o menos independiente de la Tª global...

Y, supuestamente, la tª tendría que seguir aproximadamente la misma tendencia en todo el planeta (más pronunciada en los polos y menos en el ecuador), si fuera el CO2 el que estuviera causando el calentamiento, no?
Desde Córdoba(104 msnm) - Barrio de San Lorenzo (ESE de la capital)
Al buen tiempo, mala cara.

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2384 en: Lunes 02 Mayo 2011 00:45:02 am »
Salieron los Primeros resultados Preliminares del Berckeley surface temperature.

Para los que no están en el tema el proyecto de Berckeley pretende hacer una nueva serie de anomalías de temperatura globales la más completa, utilizando todas las estaciones posibles en existencia unas 39,000, varias veces más que la de cualquier serie hasta el momento y pretende con esto confirmar o no lo que muchos escépticos han criticado en cuanto a que las series disponibles están sobrestimando el calentamiento actual por diferentes causas como la baja en el numero de estaciones, estaciones ubicadas en sitios inadecuados,que se han movido de lugar,estaciones afectados por isla de calor,etc....

En el equipo a cargo de este proyecto esta el conocido y
declarado Escéptico Richard Muller y es quien lo preside.

Berkeley Earth Team
Berkeley Earth team members include:

Robert Rohde, Physicist (Lead Scientist)
Richard Muller, Professor of Physics (Chair)

David Brillinger, Statistical Scientist
Judith Curry, Climatologist
Don Groom, Physicist
Robert Jacobsen, Professor of Physics
Elizabeth Muller, Project Manager
Saul Perlmutter, Professor of Physics
Arthur Rosenfeld, Professor of Physics, Former California Energy
Commissioner
Charlotte Wickham, Statistical Scientist
Jonathan Wurtele, Professor of Physics  








Voy a dejar el testimonio al congreso de EEUU de sus primeros resultados preliminares,
 lamentablemente no apoyan las presunciones de los escépticos.
Es un poco largo pero vale la pena..


TATEMENT TO THE COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE AND TECHNOLOGY
OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Richard A. Muller
Professor of Physics
University of California, Berkeley
Chair, Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Project
31 March 2011


Executive Summary

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project was created to make the best possible
estimate of global temperature change using as complete a record of measurements as
possible and by applying novel methods for the estimation and elimination of systematic
biases. It was organized under the auspices of Novim, a non-profit public interest group.
Our approach builds on the prior work of the groups at NOAA, NASA, and in the UK
(Hadley Center – Climate Research Unit, or HadCRU).
Berkeley Earth has assembled 1.6 billion temperature measurements, and will soon make
these publicly available in a relatively easy to use format.
The difficult issues for understanding global warming are the potential biases.

These can
arise from many technical issues, including data selection, substandard temperature
station quality, urban vs rural effects, station moves, and changes in the methods and
times of measurement.
We have done an initial study of the station selection issue. Rather than pick stations
with long records (as done by the prior groups) we picked stations randomly from the
complete set. This approach eliminates station selection bias. Our results are shown in
the Figure; we see a global warming trend that is very similar to that previously reported
by the other groups.
We have also studied station quality. Many US stations have low quality rankings
according to a study led by Anthony Watts. However, we find that the warming seen in
the “poor” stations is virtually indistinguishable from that seen in the “good” stations.
We are developing statistical methods to address the other potential biases.
I suggest that Congress consider the creation of a Climate-ARPA to facilitate the study of
climate issues.
Based on the preliminary work we have done, I believe that the systematic biases that are
the cause for most concern can be adequately handled by data analysis techniques. The
world temperature data has sufficient integrity to be used to determine global temperature
trends.
Testimony of Richard A. Muller
Thank you Chairman Hall and Ranking Member Johnson for this opportunity to testify
before the Committee.
I am a Professor of Physics at UC Berkeley and Faculty Senior Scientist at the Lawrence
Berkeley Laboratory. I founded the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project under
the auspices of Novim, a non-profit public interest group. My testimony represents my
personal views and not those of the above organizations.
[[Italic part for written statement only, not to be read aloud]]
I’ve published papers on climate change in Science, Nature, and other refereed journals;
I am the author of a technical book on the subject.
My papers on climate change have appeared in Nature, Science, Paleoceanography, and
the Journal of Geophysical Research. I wrote a technical book on the Earth’s past
temperature changes: “Ice Ages and Astronomical Causes”, Springer 2000. I am the
author of “Physics for Future Presidents”, a popular book which describes many
misuses of data in climate. I was a cited referee on the report of the NRC on the hockey
stick controversy. For two years I wrote an online column for MIT’s Technology Review.
My major awards for scientific achievement include the Alan T. Waterman Award of the
National Science Foundation, the Texas Instruments Founders Prize, a MacArthur Prize
Fellowship, and election to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and to the
California Academy of Sciences.
The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature study has received a total of $623,087 in
financial support from:
The Lee and Juliet Folger Fund ($20,000)
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory ($188,587)
William K. Bowes, Jr. Foundation ($100,000)
Fund for Innovative Climate and Energy Research (created by Bill Gates) ($100,000)
Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation ($150,000)
The Ann & Gordon Getty Foundation ($50,000)
We have also received funding from a number of private individuals, totaling $14,500.
For more information on Berkeley Earth, see www.BerkeleyEarth.org
For more information on Novim, see www.Novim.org

I begin by talking about
Global Warming

Prior groups at NOAA, NASA, and in the UK (HadCRU) estimate about a 1.2 degree C
land temperature rise from the early 1900s to the present. This 1.2 degree rise is what we
call global warming. Their work is excellent, and the Berkeley Earth project strives to
build on it.

Human caused global warming is somewhat smaller. According to the most recent
IPCC report (2007), the human component became apparent only after 1957, and it
amounts to “most” of the 0.7 degree rise since then. Let’s assume the human-caused
warming is 0.6 degrees.
The magnitude of this temperature rise is a key scientific and public policy concern. A
0.2 degree uncertainty puts the human component between 0.4 and 0.8 degrees – a factor
of two uncertainty. Policy depends on this number. It needs to be improved.
Berkeley Earth is working to improve on the accuracy of this key number by using a
more complete set of data, and by looking at biases in a new way.
The project has already merged 1.6 billion land surface temperature measurements from
16 sources, most of them publicly available, and is putting them in a simple format to
allow easy use by scientists around the world. By using all the data and new statistical
approaches that can handle short records, and by using novel approaches to estimation
and avoidance of systematic biases, we expect to improve on the accuracy of the estimate
of the Earth’s temperature change.
I’ll now talk about potential
Bias in Data Selection
Prior groups (NOAA, NASA, HadCRU) selected for their analysis 12% to 22% of the
roughly 39,000 available stations. (The number of stations they used varied from 4,500
to a maximum of 8,500.)
They believe their station selection was unbiased. Outside groups have questioned that,
and claimed that the selection picked records with large temperature increases. Such bias
could be inadvertent, for example, a result of choosing long continuous records. (A long
record might mean a station that was once on the outskirts and is now within a city.)
To avoid such station selection bias, Berkeley Earth has developed techniques to work
with all the available stations. This requires a technique that can include short and
discontinuous records.
In an initial test, Berkeley Earth chose stations randomly from the complete set of 39,028
stations. Such a selection is free of station selection bias.
In our preliminary analysis of these stations, we found a warming trend that is shown in
the figure. It is very similar to that reported by the prior groups: a rise of about 0.7
degrees C since 1957. (Please keep in mind that the Berkeley Earth curve, in black, does
not include adjustments designed to eliminate systematic bias.)


Figure: Land average temperatures from the three major programs, compared with an
initial test of the Berkeley Earth dataset and analysis process. Approximately 2 percent
of the available sites were chosen randomly from the complete set of 39,028 sites
.

TheBerkeley data are marked as preliminary because they do not include treatments for the
reduction of systematic bias.

The Berkeley Earth agreement with the prior analysis surprised us, since our preliminary
results don’t yet address many of the known biases. When they do, it is possible that the
corrections could bring our current agreement into disagreement.
Why such close agreement between our uncorrected data and their adjusted data? One
possibility is that the systematic corrections applied by the other groups are small. We
don’t yet know.

The main value of our preliminary result is that it demonstrates the Berkeley Earth ability
to use all records, including those that are short or fragmented. When we apply our
approach to the complete data collection, we will largely eliminate the station selection
bias, and significantly reduce statistical uncertainties.

Let me now address the problem of
Poor Temperature Station Quality


Many temperature stations in the U.S. are located near buildings, in parking lots, or close
to heat sources.

 Anthony Watts and his team has shown that most of the current stations
in the US Historical Climatology Network would be ranked “poor” by NOAA’s own
standards, with error uncertainties up to 5 degrees C.
Did such poor station quality exaggerate the estimates of global warming? We’ve
studied this issue, and our preliminary answer is no.

The Berkeley Earth analysis shows that over the past 50 years the poor stations in the
U.S. network do not show greater warming than do the good stations.

Thus, although poor station quality might affect absolute temperature, it does not appear
to affect trends, and for global warming estimates, the trend is what is important.


Our key caveat is that our results are preliminary and have not yet been published in a
peer reviewed journal. We have begun that process of submitting a paper to the Bulletin
of the American Meteorological Society, and we are preparing several additional papers
for publication elsewhere.
NOAA has already published a similar conclusion – that station quality bias did not
affect estimates of global warming – -- based on a smaller set of stations, and Anthony
Anthony Watts and his team have a paper submitted, which is in late stage peer review,
using over 1000 stations, but it has not yet been accepted for publication and I am not at
liberty to discuss their conclusions and how they might differ.

We have looked only at
average temperature changes, and additional data needs to be studied, to look at (for
example) changes in maximum and minimum temperatures.
In fact, in our preliminary analysis the good stations report more warming in the U.S.
than the poor stations by 0.009 ± 0.009 degrees per decade, opposite to what might be
expected, but also consistent with zero.


We are currently checking these results and
performing the calculation in several different ways. But we are consistently finding that
there is no enhancement of global warming trends due to the inclusion of the poorly
ranked US stations.


Berkeley Earth hopes to complete its analysis including systematic bias avoidance in the
next few weeks.

We are now studying new approaches to reducing biases from:
1. Urban heat island effects. Some stations in cities show more rapid warming than
do stations in rural areas.
2. Time of observation bias. When the time of recording temperature is changed,
stations will typically show different mean temperatures than they did previously.
This is sometimes corrected in the processes used by existing groups. But this
cannot be done easily for remote stations or those that do not report times of
observations.
3. Station moves. If a station is relocated, this can cause a “jump” in its
temperatures. This is typically corrected in the adjustment process used by other
groups. Is the correction introducing another bias? The corrections are
sometimes done by hand, making replication difficult.
4. Change of instrumentation. When thermometer type is changed, there is often an
offset introduced, which must be corrected.

Potential Legislation

I was asked what legislation could advance our knowledge of climate change. After
some consideration, I felt that the creation of a Climate Advanced Research Project
Agency, or Climate-ARPA, could help.
Without the efforts of Anthony Watts and his team, we would have only a series of
anecdotal images of poor temperature stations, and we would not be able to evaluate the
integrity of the data.
This is a case in which scientists receiving no government funding did work crucial to
understanding climate change.

Similarly for the work done by Steve McIntyre. Their
“amateur” science is not amateur in quality; it is true science, conducted with integrity
and high standards.

Government policy needs to encourage such work. Climate-ARPA could be an
organization that provides quick funding to worthwhile projects without regard to
whether they support or challenge current understanding.

In Summary

Despite potential biases in the data, methods of analysis can be used to reduce bias effects
well enough to enable us to measure long-term Earth temperature changes. Data integrity
is adequate.
Based on our initial work at Berkeley Earth, I believe that some of the most
worrisome biases are less of a problem than I had previously thought.


« Última modificación: Lunes 02 Mayo 2011 01:19:56 am por Doom »

In memoriam: Albert A. Bartlett
aHJpenpvIHNvcyB1biBUUk9MICwgeSB5YSBtZSB0ZW5lcyBsb3MgaHVldm9zIHBvciBlbCBwaXNvLCBwZXJvIGlndWFsIHRlIHF1aWVyby4u
"Hay que tener la mente abierta. Pero no tanto como para que se te caiga el cerebro al suelo."
Dr. Richard Feynman

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2385 en: Martes 03 Mayo 2011 12:20:04 pm »
Muchas gracias Doom ;)



Figure: Land average temperatures from the three major programs, compared with an
initial test of the Berkeley Earth dataset and analysis process. Approximately 2 percent
of the available sites were chosen randomly from the complete set of 39,028 sites
.


Yo lo que aprecio aquí, y en la figura del primer post es que GISS no está dando temperaturas especialmente más cálidas que el resto de organismos que miden temperatura global. Las diferencias en la tendencia pueden deberse a:

- Las diferencias en el valor de algunos años como 1998, 1999, etc. puede provocar una aparente tendencia muy diferente a escala 10 años que desaparece si se toman escalas de tiempo más largas. Sigo pensando en que el concepto de tendencia está implícito a escalas de tiempo donde la variabilidad oscilante es menor que la tendencia (no es el caso de los 10 años).

- Parecen estar midiendo áreas y/o puntos no coincidentes. Ya sabemos que algunos organismos interpolan a más áreas que otros.

- Tal vez las metodologías estén influenciados por errores cuasi-aleatorios (oscilantes) diferentes, que tenderán a compensarse a escalas de tiempo más largas.

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2386 en: Martes 03 Mayo 2011 12:51:24 pm »

Yo lo que pienso es que publicar con una muestra aleatoria del 2% de las estaciones es simplemente ganas y prisas por publicar algo. Me dice lo mismo que las encuestas a los 5 minutos de cerrar las urnas... poco o nada.
   

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Re: Seguimiento temperatura global
« Respuesta #2387 en: Martes 03 Mayo 2011 14:24:04 pm »

Yo lo que pienso es que publicar con una muestra aleatoria del 2% de las estaciones es simplemente ganas y prisas por publicar algo. Me dice lo mismo que las encuestas a los 5 minutos de cerrar las urnas... poco o nada.

Pues si... ya podian haber puesto lo del 2% al principio, me hubiera ahorrado leer todo el tocho... el 2% de 39.000, si no me equivoco, son 780 estaciones... :mucharisa: :rcain: de todos modos, gracias porla informacion, Doom... ;)





Yo lo que aprecio aquí, y en la figura del primer post es que GISS no está dando temperaturas especialmente más cálidas que el resto de organismos que miden temperatura global. Las diferencias en la tendencia pueden deberse a:

- Las diferencias en el valor de algunos años como 1998, 1999, etc. puede provocar una aparente tendencia muy diferente a escala 10 años que desaparece si se toman escalas de tiempo más largas. Sigo pensando en que el concepto de tendencia está implícito a escalas de tiempo donde la variabilidad oscilante es menor que la tendencia (no es el caso de los 10 años).

¿Sabes lo que pasa, Roberto?... que esos trocitos de recta horizontales, paralelos al eje X, que se aprecian en estas graficas en su final, son fruto de mas o menos 10/12 años de temperatura global mas o menos estancada, y como son esos años, pues de eso tenemos que hablar... si en 2020 o 2030 esos trocitos horizontales se han prologado, pues ya hablaremos entonces... y si, si vuelven a aparecer rectas crecientes infinitas, pues tambien hablaremos... 8)

pd: lo que tengo miedo es que el mas o menos estancamiento se prolongue mas de lo esperado por alguno y entonces se diga que se necesitan 150 años para sacar una tendencia buena, y claro, si en 2030 y en caso de seguir estancado el asunto, cogemos tendencias que partan de 1850, cuando termino la PEH, pues tendremos, obviamente, una tendencia al ascenso clarisimo... y si no, pues cogemos una recta de tendencia que parta de la ultima glaciacion, asi nos aseguramos que la tendencia sea ascendente y achicharradora... ::)